21st Century, that anybody can argue against (in this thread or elsewhere) that going by bike to work is way better, healthier, more humanly fulfilling, than by car leaves me speechless. Vote for mayors pro bike roads or ask for showers at work, there is always a solution.
I'm not going to say that we should all be in cars, but I used to ride my bicycle everywhere-
I ride motorcycles now, and I still get a lot of the upsides- open to the environment, a physical activity (though more mild than biking at a hard pace), and my stress levels are lower.
But it has one more huge upside; back when I bicycled all the time, I'd always arrive everywhere hot and sweaty. Workplaces can install showers, but what about the supermarket? The library? Classrooms? Your girlfriend's house? (which of course has showers, but back then her parents would NOT have approved)
If you're going to build a city with all of those things a few blocks away, then it's an easy ride and no big deal, but that's a pretty major overhaul. I don't see it working in existing cities. Plus, besides problems with showers, the time commitment in existing cities is pretty big. I live rather close to my job, and it would still take me 1-2 hours to get there by bicycle.
Once again, not that I love cars everywhere all the time, but it's a pretty darn big feat to switch to bicycles in many American cities.
disclaimer: I do love my bikes, I'm kind of a petrol head.
I don't think it's fair to class riding a motorcycle as a physical activity, if riding a motorcycle is then so is riding a car. Yes, I've done my bit of biking and yes, it's more of a 'workout' (if that's even an appropriate term) compared to riding a car but it's nowhere near the exercise you get on a bike, either by duration or by distance travelled.
Also, most of the memories I've got from riding motorcycles long distance are that you arrive stiff as a board from not moving for that long.
1-2 hours away by bicycle is not "rather close", it's downright far.
Why not find a place where you can cycle to work in 10-15 minutes? I did it and it works great. It gives you lots of free time (short commute) and money (no car ownership). So much so that I started a freelance shop on the side.
Well, it's only 15-20 minutes by motorcycle, but I live in mountainous terrain and I'm not one of those crazy bicyclists who can maintain 20mph up a hill. If it was 15-20 minutes away because of stoplights and traffic it'd be bicyclable, but it's 15-20 minutes of highway through the hills.
I can't exactly just pick any 'ol other job; I'm in school and that is extremely limiting.
Also, if I suddenly had more money, I'd spend at least some of it on (motor)bikes because that's my hobby, so "you'll save money on transportation" doesn't work.
[Somewhat off-topic from bicycles in cities; my apologies.]
Do you not get sweaty on motorcycles? Even with a fully mesh jacket, I arrive everywhere _drenched_. In the height of the summer, I put on an athletic shirt and keep my real shirt in a bag to change into when I get to my destination.
If anything, I'd say bicycles are better because it's difficult to go fast enough to require the safety gear that a motorcycle does.
Disclaimer: new motorcyclist, used to race bicycles at a high level; I'm kind of a pedal head.
It depends. When it's really really hot, yes, but at those temperatures it doesn't matter what I use to travel, I'll be sweating anyway.
Admittedly, I'm really quite good at my lowering my heart rate and by extension body temperature at stop lights, and my commuter bike has a fully upright riding stance with no wind protection. I get plenty of ventilation; on a night that would be temperate on my sport bike, I'd be freezing on my commuter bike.
P.S. have you bicycled recently? I feel so ridiculously exposed, out of control and vulnerable now that I'm used to armor, and I really do prefer the armor.
> I live rather close to my job, and it would still take
> me 1-2 hours to get there by bicycle.
Funny, I live as far as is bearable from my job, and it would take me a bit more than 1 hour to get there by bicycle (and 35 to 45 minutes by car). How your scales can be stretched by motor vehicles :)
Better is the word I'm going to hit on in your comment. I'd love to bike to work. I've even considered it actually, this in spite of the following:
- I live in Vancouver. It rains 5 months of the year.
- I have a 30km commute, my car is faster (By a longshot, not by a few minutes).
- My car does not require I have a shower after getting to work.
- My car is more adaptable: I can carry extra work home, I can stop for a coffee, I can schedule a meeting in the morning or afternoon and then hit the office.
There are many ways in which my car is "better". Healthier? No. More humanly fulfilling? Well, that depends. Is it more humanly fulfilling to spend the time commuting on my bike or with my kids?
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I upvoted you, but I found myself wondering why you have a 30km commute. You mention that you would be more humanly fulfilled if you spent more time with your kids; why are you fine with wasting an hour commuting every day?
I've been paying more attention lately to perceived requirements. So often we assume that we have to continue living or working where we currently are, and that we have to build our lives around that. The truth is contrary to that: almost everything in your life can be changed, and it's often much easier than you think.
Because, if you understand Vancouver, you realize that if you want a house, and don't have millions, you need to live in the burbs. It's just too damn expensive here.
That said, I see it as an issue to be corrected, however that takes time. Sorry, but I'm not raising a family of 4 in a condo, based on the experience of raising a family of 3 in a condo.
Pittsburgh has lots of cheap houses in an urban environment. I walk to work most days, but considering getting a bike to save time.
So, anyone looking to raise a family in nice sized house while still living in a city, should consider Pittsburgh. You can also Google previous HN discussions of the tech/startup scene in Pittsburgh.
Neither here nor there, but Vancouver is in Canada, and working somewhere that you are not a citizen is still a lot harder than it needs to be. Of course the grandparent could still consider Waterloo.
What particular problems did you run into while raising a family of three in a condo? It's not a common occurrence around here, but I've concluded that more of it would be a good thing, so your input would be helpful.
Sure, if you live 30km from where you work, you probably aren't going to ride a bike (or walk, or take transit). If you lived <5km, you'd waste less time commuting.
re: rain - sounds like rain gear is important. So are fenders.
re: showering - i've found that simply biking at a more relaxed pace avoids the whole sweat issue (besides in the morning, it's not the hottest time of the day. Biking home might be more of a problem, but then there is a shower at the end.) Plus even if you have some hills, you get in shape and will barely notice the exercise.
re: carrying extra work - what exactly are you carrying? I find i can haul a laptop and a lot of junk with a pair of panniers. Also good for picking up groceries.
Also, besides the environmental issues mentioned - i'm always amazed that drivers don't love cyclists. Every bike on the road means less traffic and one more parking space.
In Sweden (average 164 days/year with rain), there's a saying typically used by parents when their kids complain about the weather.
It goes, translated very verbatim: "there is no bad weather, only bad clothes". It's far snappier in Swedish where it rhymes, but I guess the point comes across, still.
Update: after reading a few more comments, I guess this doesn't address the other end of the spectrum, that it can be too warm/humid to go by bike. Score one for cultural bias.
Interesting, we have that saying in Germany too. At least amongst sailors from northern Germany. It does not rhyme though but is a direct translation. My wild guess would be that sailors brought it here from Sweden. Heh!
Heh, the highest temperature ever recorded in Sweden is 100F/38C. Looks like in most parts the average winter temperature is warmer than Chicago. Sounds like you guys have it pretty easy.
I've always thought that it was a common saying in Britain, notorious for its bad weather. IIRC the world's rainiest place is some island off the coast of Scotland.
I remember watching Billy Connolly doing a stand-up show years ago where he went on a massive rant about people complaining about the weather.
He rounded of his rant with the statement:
"There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes."
To this day I consider that quote to be one of my all-time favourites as it really helps me smile whilst most people are depressed over the fact that it's cold and wet.
I grew up in Florida and lived in Sweden for a couple years. Even as a kid I disliked Florida because you quickly run out of clothes to take off. Even in a bathing suit it's sweltering. While I don't find winter weather pleasant, I just put on more clothes until it's bearable.
Netherlands is a really rainy country. Still, bikes are extremely popular, like the average is 2 bikes per person.
The typical commute scheme is (1) bike to the station, then (2) train (trains are good, really good), then (3) another bike to work.
To illustrate the "humanely fulfilling": while students in Rotterdam, we had to ride our bikes back 5km from a pub... it just started raining, but while biking the sky literaly fell on us. We arrived soaking wet, drenched. Among us, this remains one of our best memories.
Funny how that works. I have had many many occasions of traveling while soaking wet for miles, and they always make great stories, and weren't all that bad.
Now, on the other hand I've had times where it's just downright miserable, and I was pretty sure my fingers were on the verge of serious frostbite, and that was NOT fun and never will be. But, that's not too common.
I hear you. I remember when I lived in Manhattan on the Upper East Side coming back from a party somewhere in deepest darkest Queens, getting off the subway and biking up the path along the East River. Middle of the night and bucketing with rain. My roomie and I were riding mountain bikes and played all the way home, jumping off every little bump in sight and charging through all the puddles. We got back to our apartment soaking wet, grinning from ear to ear like little boys.
And yup, it's one of my favourite memories from living in Manhattan.
That is awesome -- it's almost unfathomable to your average commuter that the journey itself can be even better than what awaits one at the destination.
Getting soaked on the way to work can be a pain, but if one just carries a rain suit in his/her bag then this will never be an issue.
I've had some amazing experiences getting drenched too.
But I'm not sure that it would be that amazing on my way into work. (Likely carrying a laptop).
I live without a car in a rainy area. I've showed up at work a handful of times simply drenched. Not fun, but it actually happens a lot less than I thought it would. It doesn't bother me particularly in other situations, like on the way home from work or when going shopping. But, yeah, showing up at work drenched kind of sucks. Of course, as others have mentioned, how you dress matters so with planning this can be ameliorated if you travel by foot or bike regularly -- which seems to be an alien concept to folks who are very dependent on their cars.
Speaking of the Netherlands, one of their contributions to cycling are the Rainmates overtrousers: http://www.rainmates.nl/?ln=en
I've got a pair of those and they are really convenient: I can put them on quickly, even while wearing shoes, and my legs don't get as sweaty because the rainmates are open in the rear side.
Muenster is one of the cities with the most raining days in germany. Still nearly everyone drives by bike. There is no such thing as bad weather. Only bad choice in clothing :).
If you have a decent waterproof jacket, sensible shoes and maybe waterproof overtrousers for when it gets really wet then even walking in the pouring rain is fairly comfortable.
I was arguing against the "better". For the record - I catch the train. But even when I lived close enough to ride - I caught the tram or train -- more protection from weather and much less sweat.
well, here is one argument that you may not have heard :)
as per http://www.denverpost.com/election2010/ci_15673894 Republican gubernatorial candidate Dan Maes is warning voters that Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper's policies, particularly his efforts to boost bike riding "could threaten our personal freedoms"
Especially the handicapped and elderly like bikes (or not). A good train system (such in Japan) is much better). That way even children and elderly can travel long distances.
Does it reach 95 degress F with almost 100% humidity in the summer and -50 degrees F in the winter? Does it ever snow 12 inches+ at a time? Is there every freezing rain followed by inches of snow covering it?
My point is, what works in California doesn't work in Fargo or Minneapolis. Even driving a diesel automobile. They gel up bad. Same with electric cars, the temperature (hot and cold) kills batteries.
If I lived in Santa Barbara, yeah, biking to work would be awesome.
Have you ever been to Minneapolis? Minneapolis has an incredible network of bikeways and is a place where bike commuting is very popular. Most folks don't do it all winter, but it's doable:
http://www.civiacycles.com/whattowear/
And personal experience as a Milwaueean on my part says biking in the cold feels awesome. You get that great warm-on-the-inside, crisp-on-the-outside feeling. The downside is that it can be sketchy on ill-designed roads.
